The way to a real teacher

[Rajan Arulganesan]

Are there any accounts of any modern day seeker meeting with, and recognising, a teacher? and being accepted? A chronicle of their mind states whilst they are grappling with words, concepts, ideas?
Irina Tweedie's 'Chasm of fire' deals with this theme, but,this is more about her experiences under the guidance of her teacher than before she found him. I am interested in their experiences before this stage, what actually led them to the teacher.
From the above book;
'"Why did you come to me?" He asked quietly breaking the silence. I looked at him. The beads in his left hand were resting on the arm support of the chair and all at once,as if waiting for this very question, I felt a sudden irresistible desire to speak, an urgency to tell everything, absolutely, about myself, my longing, my aspirations, all my life....
It was a compulsion. I began to speak and talked for a long time. I told him that I wanted god,was searching for truth. From what I had learned from L.,I knew that he could help me. I went on and on. He kept nodding slowly as if the torrent of my words was a confirmation of his own thoughts, looking at me, no, rather through me, with those strange eyes of his, as if to search out the very intimate, hidden corners of my mind.
'I want God,'I heard myself saying, ' But not the Christian idea of an anthropomorphic deity. I want the Rootless root, the causeless cause of the Upanishads.'

When I was reading this above account, it occurred to me that I have not felt this longing, not this strongly, not how she describes it. Yes, I do want to resolve the conflicts of my existence, understand the meaning of it, but, more from a very practical point of view, like, I am on this earth to carry out a certain task, if I knew with certainty what this was, I could be getting on with this, rather than wasting time chasing meaningless mirages. I know its not as straightforward as that, but, this had been my reasoning.
Would any of you who are under the guidance of a teacher, in a 'school', care to share your experience of 'being found'? How it was before this stage, how did the meeting occur? How did you know this was your teacher? Did you have to reach a certain point of despair? I feel this would be helpful and hope you would share these with us.

[Rajan Arulganesan]

Mike,
I have come across this concept of the teacher's superego taking over your own, differently expressed, before. Do you find that sometimes, your superego rebels against this?

[Rajan Arulganesan]

All these accounts are plugging a lot of gaps in my understanding, thank you. I realise Michael, as you said, there are thousand ways to skin a cat. I am a little bit preoccupied by this idea of finding a teacher, mentor or guide at the moment and sometimes I suspect that this could be a manifestation of greed. A friend of mine who has more of an idea about such matters says to me that one doesn't even know when he's ready to be instructed or one's intentions or motives. I largely agree with this., because, at the moment lot of my thoughts feel very fickle to me and I can't tell whether I am simply indulging in this as a way of finding intellectual stimuli, because, to tell the truth none of the old tricks, literature, the arts, political debates etc., provide the kicks any more or I am genuinely drawn to this 'truth'. the more information I come across regarding spirituality I also feel that my intuition and attention are weak and sometimes drowned out by the active thought processes. I have no means of measuring these tendencies of mine in relation to others as most people that I am coming in to contact with seem to be similarly afflicted. I think Shah said somewhere that if you suspect the tendency is there, it usually is true. As you can see this is why I am preoccupied with finding a teacher, but, perhaps, being completely passive may be the right thing for me after all.

[Kareana Kee]

Beautiful story Mike, Thankyou. Especially the bit about the staff and hand.

[Michael Larkin]

Two lovely posts, Mike - much enjoyed and appreciated.

[Mike MacLeod]

Hi Rajan,

I realize this is probably not quite what you were enquiring about, but I wanted to talk about it from arm's length, as it were, for a start.

They talk about annihilations in the Shaykh, then the Founder of the order, then in the Prophet of Islam, sallahu alahi wa salaam. I'm sure this covers a large area, but what I have found is that the Superego of the Shaykh seems to replace my own to a greater or lesser degree. It seems that the superego is a particularly troublesome obstacle to the path, as in the larger perspective all automaticity is, but it represents the stronghold where right and wrong are determined and has to be addressed from the beginning if progress is to be made.

What makes this work is that the Shaykh's superego has already been replaced by something that works better, so you are not getting somebody else's quirks in exchange for your own.

[Mike MacLeod]

I wasn't specifically looking for a teacher; I was leading a miserable life and looking for help anywhere. I had been a precocious child in a loveless family and leaned while very young to depend completely on my intellect, so by the time I was 12 or so nobody could tell me anything without getting an argument.

By the time I was in my later 20s I was reassessing my life and I became despondent. During that decade a parade of spiritual visitors passed through my life, trying to enlist me in their worlds: a Buddhist, a Catholic, Protestants, a Hindu priest, a Bahai, and finally a Scientologist. By the time I was considering suicide I appealed to the Scientologist.

In the older version of HR I wrote about my experiences with them, which were positive early on but turned negative later. They did patch me up significantly and while I was depressed and despondent I was able to work, at least, which kept me going.

About 8 years later a friend of mine gave me Idries Shah's The Sufis to read. I was enchanted by the subtlety of his thought and by the slippery concepts that floated through the book. I could tell that to assume his viewpoint I would have to learn to think differently, and this was a challenge I could respond to. So I read everything I could find by him and then started in on translations of the historical masters.

At the same time I began looking for Real Live Sufis. I also wrote in the eartlier HR about how I walked right past a Naqshbandi dergah not five minutes after reading the Naqshbandi rule "Watch your step" in Idries Shah's book Oriental Magic. When I completed my errand and reversed my course down the street, as I walked past the masjid again its door opened and a dozen or more men in turbans and robes spilled out into the street in front of me. Hard to miss that. Mind you, they were not sent out to make sure I didn't escape, but because zikr had just ended. But the effect was the same.

The Shaykh of the order did not come to town until about a year later. There was a large assembly of perhaps 200 dervishes in a building and I and four others were there to take Bai'yat with him. There was a potluck dinner (I made sweet and sour chicken over rice) for all and then the ceremony. All five postulants had to shake all the hands of the other dervishes and bow to them, so I got in line last and went around the circle. By the time I was done the other four were kneeling in a row in front of the Shaykh, who was sitting in a low chair, imposing in his turban and robes and with his cane. I sat behind the others, but I was motioned to come around and sit on the extreme right end of the line. The khalifa told us that the Shaykh would hold out his cane in front of us and we were to put our hands on the cane and repeat back what the Shaykh said. I was in a state of extreme excitement. The Shaykh put out his left hand with the cane in it, and we extended our hands forward. As I was reaching for the small bit of space next to the cane's handle, my hand was moved for me onto the Shaykh's hand itself. I remember thinking, as I began to reach, that there was not much space left to grasp the cane, so maybe I should put my hand on his, but that would be presumptuous. A split second later I was told, "Do it" and my hand was moved over to his and placed on it. I was so rattled I barely got through the recitation.

I saw him one more time, several days later, but I have never seen him again. Yet if I ask a question of him internally I get an answer. He also interrupts me with comments or advice occaisionally. I have become very attached to his presence, and as I wrote in the earlier HR the day came when I finally was able to see him in my heart both as a man like myself and as a connection to God. It is hard to describe the impact of that seeing in my life; it cannot really be communicated except by walking that road. But until that moment I was "outside" the tariqat in a certain way, and afterward I felt "inside" it finally.

[Kareana Kee]

Hi Rajan and Michael,

Even though not being widely experienced in the ways of all the different schools of Sufism, I would concur with what you have said Michael. In one of my early conversations with my teacher, I mentioned I was reading Irena Tweedies : Daughter of Fire. Interestly enough while he thought it was a great book he expressed concern that the reading of it could serve to preconfigure ones experience. I promptly put the book down. From what I have read of her though (and I still pick it up from time to time and read random bits) her particular story and experience's were very much created by her responses. She mentions at one point that the other lady, who was her roommate from memory, also reflected on being treated at times in a similiar fashion, but responded rather differently. For instance Tweedie took being ignored by her teacher very to heart, her friend responded with a lot more acceptance and less intensity.

When I reflect on Tweedies experiences and my own..I see both similiarities and differences, this is going to be enevitable to a degree, because regardless of personality, we all are dealing with ego, which are remarkably similiar :) Of course different teachers styles and individual persons strengths and vulnerabilities play a part. It has already become very clear to me that in working with each person the teacher intuits what is going to be best for each person's learning and they may not be the same thing from person to person.

I also have two friends that have relationships with teacher's half way across the world and regardless of the distance, they have very strong relationships with their teachers and that seems to work very well for them. One of these people heard about the teacher from the other person and made contact with them over the email, some time later they were able to go and meet with this teacher half way accross the world.

My situation is probably partly unique in that Sufism is a relatively new thing in NZ. My teacher has established groups in other places that moves between them, but both being the first students in Auckland and having our teacher based here has probably blessed us with the opportunity for more intensive time with him. In the beginning in this practice at least, this seems to be an important thing. We are learning so much, about practices and Sufism as well. Indeed it is an introductory stage and our teacher's more established students in other places maybe see him only once a month, although the students meet as a group without him weekly.

With my teacher at least there is an emphasis on "the relationship" and I am coming to see the wisdom in this. There is definitely a sense that a large part the learning (for me at least) is in this relationship. What it is bringing up....What it is modelling to me. It is not a passive thing, where someone ie the teacher is just pouring something into an empty vessel ie me the student. Although Im sure this is happening tooo :) But it is a relationship that is dynamic..somehow I know it is teaching me something....about mutuality and Love :)

[Michael Larkin]

Hi Rajan,

Wish I could say I dreamt of my teacher or I saw him somewhere and just knew he was the one. Fact is, I don't know if my teacher is the one, and I joined his school more or less as an experiment. Others in the school do tell strange stories that involve dreams or peculiar circumstances, but I just heard about him and joined his school.

It must be great if there is some kind of recognition and sense of certainty, but I don't have that. It continues to be an experiment. I can't say if the progress I have made in the past few years, such as it is, is a result of my teacher's influence, or whether it might have happened anyway.

One thing about making a decision, taking a risk and joining a school, is that that in and of itself inevitably makes you change. It certainly weaned me off Idries Shah’s books, made me see how I had become locked up in Shah’s world and interpreted everything through what (I thought) they said. I had been scared to make a move, at some level worrying that I’d be "punished" for lack of loyalty. I think some Shah folk are still bound up like that, because Shah based so much emphasis on authentic and bogus schools, and what their characteristics were. But the fact is, from such reports as I have read, Shah’s groups themselves weren’t like one would have expected them to be from the information he provided.

I suspect that in many schools, particularly big ones, only a few are close to the teacher and establish some kind of regular and recognisably student-teacher relationship. The rest, the majority, may somehow benefit from that without necessarily having any “signs” to assure them of the teacher’s authenticity. There’s a temptation to assume from this that those who are in regular contact with the teacher are more spiritually advanced. Maybe that is so, but is it necessarily so? Maybe somehow what goes on in the “inner circle” gets “radiated” to the “outer circle”: Shah intimated something of the sort in one of his books – can’t remember which off-hand.

You never know, Rajan, you may already be under the influence of a teacher. Stuff may already be radiating that you can unwittingly pick up on. “It” may be out there like invisible radio waves, able to be received by anyone with the semblance of an inbuilt receiver tuned to the right frequency.

I remember one of Shah’s stories about people who applied to join a school. The sheikh questioned them, and said some could start straight away. Others would have to wait a few years. It wasn’t that the ones accepted straight away were specially favoured, but that they were more in need of introductory studies.

Certainly, I have seen at least one person arrive at my school, be seemingly fêted and given great attention (something which has never happened to me), and I thought that here must be a special person. But after a few months, this individual left the school, never to be seen again. So you can never tell what the significance is of the way people are treated. Maybe some who get “signs” only get them because they need them in order to carry on in the school. Not getting them, and seeming just like another bozo on the bus, may be more beneficial for others, and not everyone feels comfortable if there seems to be any kind of special attention.

I guess one thing I’m trying to say is that there are a thousand ways a cat may be skinned. Some may seem flashy and attractive, and others dull and maybe even a bit boring. You don’t know what to expect, and if you are looking for some obvious sign of recognition of your teacher, it might not turn out like that. And the risk is, that looking for that may blind you to more subtle contacts. So keep open, and try not to expect anything. And, try not to feel any disappointment if it seems to you that you haven’t yet found a teacher. You may one day find one without ever realising it, may be taught without ever knowing it.

[Rajan Arulganesan]

This is a lovely account Kareana, thank you.
'I just felt a little guilty jumping camps, even though I had never formalised a teacher relationship with the previous person'.
My thought is that may be it was meant to happen this way, as James once wrote, although he had been in contact with Idries Shah for a long time before he met his current teacher and had regarded Shah as his teacher during that time, only later did he realise that Shah was just providing the stimuli James needed at that time, before the time was right for the contact with his current teacher to occur.

[Kareana Kee]

Hi Rajan,

I think for me it was a combination of things. Ive written before about what set me off on a spiritual path and I realise it was no one thing or event. It seems it was a natural and almost inevitable progression. actually I couldnt say exactly that I had this deep longing for God that so many describe. but i did indeed have lots of deep unsatisfied longings!!! :) Perhaps misplaced?! Or at least that's what im starting to understand. Much heartache and pain, a need to find another way to understand this life, to find some meaning and do things differently. Interestly I had friends pursuing different things and I often read stuff and sometimes even went along to some other groups but nothing really resonated. My interest in Sufism was sparked in a number of ways, one of which was after reading Rumi's poetry, another was a personal experience I had, that left me convinced their was more to this life than "I" and I just made a decision that my life needed to change, I needed to look beyond. Actually I did have a deep despair moment where I cried out from the depths of my soul NEVER AGAIN!

As for how I went about it. I simply googled on the Internet and found someone who was a contact in Auckland for Sufism. actually there wasnt really much choice. It's not exactly a thriving thing down this end of the world. Many wouldnt even know what it is. Anyway we arranged to meet. She was a lovely lady who I talked with at length and felt very warm and reassured of her sobriety and genuiness and I sense that everything I was telling her was completely familiar to her. I started attending a group that she holds and did so for nearly a year. It is interesting though because I had and still do a great Love and respect for this person, but never really though of her as a Teacher. She was more a friend and I was admittadly a little unclear of what our relationship was and always saw she was dealing with a lot of different people and I didnt feel comfortable asking too much from her...not that she wouldnt have found time for me..she did on many occasions.

It was actually through this women that I met the teacher i have know. He was a guest at her house up visiting from Wellington and from a different school altogether. We had the good and (fortunous) opportunity to share dinner and sit in meditation with him with a group of friends. I can only say that his presence was strong and that he held the whole group completely entranced and the most magical of evenings unfolded, unlike anything I had ever experienced. We had already had a nice connection over dinner and after that evening I just new I wanted to meet with him again. It turned out it was another 6 months before he returned to Auckland, but the next time it was to move here. And I was able to drop in to a workshop he was having in auckland with the Wellington group and of which his Sheykh was attending from overseas. I both sat with the Shaykh and spent half the day with group as a guest. At the point he suggested we meet again for a one on one. It is getting on to a year soon that I have been with this teacher. Actually I was just thinking about it the other day and was a little suprised how much time has passed, it seems only yesterday! It has been a very different experience than previous. Apart from the practices being very different, there is definetly a 'connection' there between us. I like that it is structured. We meet every week one on one and then as a group. I sense his strong commitment and likewise he, somehow, without ever demanding anything seems to have drawn a strong commitment out of me :) it has been a very intense 8 months or so and at times Ive thought I was completely loosing it, and having been sent into the depths of despair at times Ifully questioned if I could trust this man, but even as doubts sometimes arise, I often then see the wisdom of his way and I just seem to becoming more and more sure that this is where I am meant to be. I mean I kinda always knew..it is just a really big thing for me to put myself in the hands of a teacher...it goes against everything I have believed and to allow someone to take you places you probably wouldnt choose to go by your self..in terms of your shadow and pain but so much has changed and is still changing in my life as we speak. I think this speaks for itself.

So I guess Im saying we both knew from when we first met. He has told me he knew he was going to teach me from our first meeting and I knew I wanted him to teach me (I just felt a little guilty jumping camps, even though I had never formalised a teacher relationship with the previous person). I also know he meet with other people and only took on at the point myself and another. although our group is slowely growing.