meditation as psychotherapy

[Rajan Arulganesan]

Is it harmful in the long run for one's spiritual development to use yoga and meditation techniques as psychotherapeutic tools? I have always been tempted to seek out a yoga instructor or meditation advisor to calm my psychological and emotional unbalance, but,been fearful that this may simply treat the superficial 'existential' crisis and create a false sense of well being. The doctors are always Prozac happy and I do not want to go down this route. Is it better, in the long run to persevere with the various psychological phenomena that plagues you so that you may eventually work out what you are about? Any thoughts are welcome.

[Rajan Arulganesan]

kareana,
The reason I said that yoga and meditation would sort out my superficial 'crisis' is that a lot of modern practitioners of thee techniques, as far as I know, treat these as disciplines entirely on a psychotherapeutic basis without any reference to their 'original' spiritual function.
There are then other so called teachers from a hindu or buddhist background who teach these according to their traditions, but, without the essential knowledge that these are a vehicle to reach an end not an end in itself.
On a further point, I do agree with you that a whole host of physiological and psychological conditions that we suffer from in the modern age are due to the spiritual vacuum in us, but, Idries shah says that a seeker should be seeking higher consciusness for the sake of it not because it sorts out his other bodily ills, psychological shortcomings or lack of success in ordinary life, which makes sense. I agree with your contention that becoming spiritually aware does sort out a lot of your ills, but, if I am consciously or subconsciously seeking to resolve these while pretending to be seeking higher knowledge, then its not going to happen. A story from idries Shah is actually quite apt here. from memory;
'A certain man was seeking a guru to become a yogi and sought various gurus and yogis, carried out their instructions and practices for years and was not fulfilled. Feeling disillusioned with the enterprise he started travelling seeking a true guru. During his travels he came across a guru in a jungle whom he regarded as an attained man and asked to be his disciple. The sage accepted him and his instruction began. One day carrying out the practices, the seeker temporarily saw the illusions of material existence lift and he saw that seeming reality was an illusion. Excited, he shouted out, 'Oh teacher, I've seen reality. This is true yoga!' The guru replied, 'yes, son, you are making progress, albeit a little impatient, but, what is this yoga you are talking about?
I don't have the original story to hand. Hope I haven't distorted it too much.

[Kareana Kee]

Rajan,

I was also a little confused how you framed yoga and meditation as treating a "superficial" existential question. It sounded like you were referring to yoga and meditation as being more like relaxation technique to help you feel better? Im not sure if this is what you mean?

I use to do yoga and found it very beneficial, especially for developing body awareness, but my teacher in the particular sufi practice I follow has advised against it as it works a little counter to the work we are doing as it activates different energy points...but this is not the case with all sufi paths i believe. I understand that both yoga and meditation can work on a very deep level when it comes to dealing with existential issues, possibly dependent on how the practice is applied, the teacher and how deep you are prepared to go.

[Kareana Kee]

Hi Michael, Mike and Rajan

I found your example of the therapist reframing a patient’s alcohol problem in spiritual terms interesting, and have mixed feelings about it. Alcoholism is at least partly a genetic/biochemical problem.

This is interesting because it raises all sorts of questions about how we determine what is a biological problem and what is a spiritual problem. I am reminded of my work a few years back with people with severe 'mental illness'. For example in the case of schitzophrenia, mainstream thought views it as a medical condition as biological indicators are present that can confirm diagnosis. It is still to this day treated by drugs and in some cases electric shock treatment because of the belief it is a physical/biomedical condition. Alcoholism and other such "illnesses" are often similiar treated. The medicalisation of mental illness is a phenomenon of our modern age and a multi billion dollar industry. In my opinion the tendency is too treat the symptoms and not the causes. Alongside dealing with my own issues, Ive worked with people with severe mental illness and researched this topic considerably. I remember one particular person who had sufferred schitzophrenia for 20 or more years, who was 'managed' by a psychiatrist and a community nurse who came and gave her a weekly injection. After building a relationship with this person, she revealed to me a terrible history of rape and abuse, to which i asked had she spoken with her doctor about this and she replied : "he had never asked"! Because her "disease" was considered a medical condition, they only gave her drugs to manage the behaviours and voices. Yet research I have read challenging this drug approach shows that some incredible high percentage of schitzophrenic patients have a history of servere trauma that is completely ignored in their treatment approach by the mainstream medical profession. The behaviours that have become to be known as "schitzophrenia" can also be described as defensive mechanisms to extreme trauma and certain types of experiences.

I propose that the things that happen to us can indeed impact on us in a biological fashion, produce chemical imbalances and other physical symptoms. That is not to suggest that all biological phenomena are caused by some kind of trauma, but that a lot of physical illness can be symptomatic of other things and that even our physical development over time may be shaped by our upbringings. For example repeated migraine headaches may result from suppressing things, or bad posture, slumping over from low self esteem may eventually leads to back problems, or digestive problems from high stress. And of course if you were to go back a level low self-esteem maybe caused by a belief about ourselves (the mental realm), and then when we go back another level we may find ourself dealing with an existential issue :)

It is actually not a suprise to me that through spiritual practice a lot of other stuff gets resolved as a byproduct. This seems to make sense if you for example take the viewpoint that a lot of the things we are trying to resolve on an emotional level or mental level are acutally issues of essence or existential issues.

I think determining what realm we are dealing with is possibly half the dilemma. In the case of Wolinsky it seemed to me that he recognised and helped the person with the alcoholism to recognise that actually they were trying to solve a spiritual issue in the biological realm ie with drugs. This idea does indeed challenge our modern day medicalisation of problems. And in this particualar case at least, the problem miraculously disappeared. I have also had a similiar experience, once I started to meditate regularly and committed to my 'practice' i gave up smoking effortlessly. Just didnt want to do it anymore.

When I refer back to Rajan's original questions he says:

"I have always been tempted to seek out a yoga instructor or meditation advisor to calm my psychological and emotional unbalance, but,been fearful that this may simply treat the superficial 'existential' crisis and create a false sense of well being."

From what you have said here it seems if we are talking in realms and dimensions, you yourself identify it is an existential issue you are facing. I think it is great you know that and in my opinion whatever we can do to support our wellbeing on all levels is important, meditation, yoga and power walks......



I dont discount taking drugs, I think this is also a legitimate choice and have done so once my self many years ago. It seems though the important thing is understanding what it is your dealing with and then the way forward becomes clearer.

As someone who has a mild wheat allergy and various food intolerances, i agree it is really good to identify these things. And Im a big fan of fasting although have only done it twice...couldnt recommend it enough. I do wonder for myself though at least how much my digestive issues relate to my own difficulties of digesting certain emotions and feelings...I can certainly see parallells between the problems I have in my body and other aspects of my life...and just try to be aware of them both if i can.

[Mike MacLeod]

By the by, I very much endorse the idea of fasting from various foods to see how and if it affects problems. I have friends who are raw food fanatics, and I once sneered (politely) at what I saw as their affectations. Then I developed painful arthritis in both thumbs so severely that on bad days I could not read my own signature, and I began drinking a liquified mix of raw vegetables daily. I still get some pain sometimes, but the mixture worked better than anything, including vicodin and indocin.

In other experimenting, I discovered some significant allergies that never showed up on standard clinic in-your-back tests. Wheat, for example, gives me depression, rashes, eustachian tube inflammation, liability to infections, and other issues.

In my experience, we need to do our own testing and research to ferret out these hidden problems. But it proved worth doing for me. End of late-night TV commercial...

[Michael Larkin]

Hi Kareana,

Paraphrasing from memory, Shah has a number of things to say. First, that a modicum of ordinary human self-respect is a good thing. Second, that teaching is not therapy, but may have that effect as a by-product (so I didn't invent that! :-)). Third, that we should strive for commonsense. Fourth, that we shouldn't confuse one thing with another. Fifth, that many people stop and mill around at the accusing self stage. Sixth, that a feeling of worthlessness can, for a time at least, be valuable. Seventh, that we should lead balanced lives, and that someone who can't make a reasonable success of ordinary life is unlikely to be able to make a success spiritually. Eighth, he indicates that some problems are medical and not spiritual and are best dealt with by a physician. Ninth, that it’s okay to fulfil ordinary human needs for companionship, attention, etc., so long as we don’t seek those things from our spiritual endeavours. These are just the points that seem relevant to me that come readily to mind. There may be others.

I found your example of the therapist reframing a patient’s alcohol problem in spiritual terms interesting, and have mixed feelings about it. Alcoholism is at least partly a genetic/biochemical problem. It’s not an avenue I would explore, for example, because constitutionally, I have a low tolerance for alcohol and for twenty years have been practically teetotal because I discovered even moderate amounts (which were what I generally consumed as a "social relaxant") accounted for a lot of my feelings of depression: hardly surprising, because alcohol is a depressant.

That was a classic case of my confusing one thing with another. The form my depression would take would involve excessive self-denigration and self-absorption. Because of my general interest in matters spiritual, this would be framed in spiritual terms. I wasn’t merely worthless as a human being, but a failure spiritually. It was only when I gave up alcohol (after a rare binge session which caused me to say “never again!”), that I realised I became much less hard on myself. So it was nothing to do with my spiritual state: it was simply a biochemical issue. I myself wonder how much personal angst out there owes its origins to dietary habits, especially in modern times when our foods contain all sorts of additives. I think it may well be a good idea to experiment with selective fasting – eliminating certain foods from our diets for a period just to see if that changes our mood or outlook.

At the same time, of course, doubtless people with what are at root spiritual problems don’t realise that is what they are, and may seek remedies in inappropriate ways. In which case, it would theoretically be okay for a therapist to frame the issue in spiritual terms. But if that’s not the truth of the matter, then the therapist may be introducing confusion and making things worse rather than better.

The whole thing’s a complete minefield and I can only report my own personal experience, namely, that the thing that really works is the development of the observing self, a faculty that is able to look at one’s own behaviour dispassionately, without identification with that behaviour. This is perhaps especially difficult when it comes to self-condemnation. One usually so completely identifies with this that it can seem near-impossible to detach from feelings of guilt and blame.

I think Rajan may well be onto something by taking up physical activity such as aerobic speed-walking. To my mind, this could be a form of meditation, because when we are physically active, I think it’s easier to detach from identification with negativity. It can also happen when we indulge ourselves in some favoured activity such as gardening, playing chess, doing jigsaws or whatever; anything that completely absorbs us and brings us into the present moment. Because angst belongs to the past or future, times that don’t currently exist. The present moment is free of regret for the past or anxiety about the future. It's the place where the observer resides, the still centre that instinctively knows when we are acting out of balance.

[Kareana Kee]

just to clarify that last comment...Im thinking, as an example, of looking outward for emotional gratification, yet always finding life/people fall short. At somepoint we have to go through a rapproachment with reality, whereby we realise others have limited capacity to fill us emotionally. Perhaps the reason for this is we are really trying to find something else and have confused the spiritual with the emotional.?

[Kareana Kee]

Hi rajan,
Glad you found some of this stuff helpful. I must confess to having not read much of Idries shah, apart from part of the book "The Sufis". More just a case of having a bookshelf full of to be reads! So in short im not sure what he says on all this.

Interesting though as things go after Michaels comment about those who think of themselves as "seekers" I then read something on this very topic by Wolinsky which I personally found very insightful and perhaps relates here. Wolinsky says when a client(patient/troubled soul) has their material reframed in an archetypal context, it is possible to move from the personal, content-oriented level to a transpersonal, process-oriented level. He speaks on the archetype of the "seeker" and how that was used with a client struggling with alcoholism. "I reframed the client's experience from that of being a fighter, fending off the impulses of alcoholism, to that of being a seeker in search of a spiritual connection that was free of pain. he had used alcohol to seek an experience of life that he felt was unattainable - one that was painless. He was seeking a transcendental experience of "no pain". Instead of looking inward for his spiritual roots, he was looking outward to the alcholol to give him the solace. My task was to work hypnotically to assist him in creating the inner reality of "seeker" - to tap into his inner essence of striving for connection to a higher power."

Wolisnky is suggesting that where the ego strength is not enough to confront the content of ones life and problems that block him/her from experiencing his/her true essence, the archetypeal approach of us "spiritual seekers" is an alternative approach and perhaps more effective in assisting us to connect with a higher power. I know in my own case, as someone addictively outwardly orientated, what wolinsky says rings very true. Im just not sure that any of us humans can claim not to be seeker for some type of well being or return to an orignal state of grace. If we werent sufferring (emotionally, physically etc) we wouldnt be seeking, we would already be in that state of grace.

[Rajan Arulganesan]

Thank you guys, I have never considered this idea of our being having so many dimensions, this really helps. I do have to clarify one thing though, after reading Idries shah, I was quite adamant that I was never going to seek spirituality for the sake of my emotional well being, the feeling was more like, 'this is what I am here to strive towards'. So, when I spoke about using yoga or meditation to sort out my emotional or psychological issues, what I meant was using a sort of modern therapist who is not claiming to be a spiritual teacher of any sort, simply a practitioner.
After not being motivated enough to doing aerobic exercises for a while, this morning I went for a very long speed walk which really brought more focus to my thought process, hope I can keep it up.

[Mike MacLeod]

Or a rooster crowing.

[Mike MacLeod]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the positive feedback. No, I never looked at myself in that way, despite spending most of my life looking into myself like a parakeet twittering at itself in a mirror.